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The War on Drugs: For What Reason?

Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:27 AM EDT
politics, drugs, marijuana, smoking, cannabis, war-on-drugs, tobacco, acid, lsd, ecstasy, lvs2, salvia, mdma, lvs2-08, alobol
By Danny McGee
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On July 1st, 2008, it became illegal to sell, use, or possess the plant known as Salvia divinorum in the state of Florida. Salvia divinorum contains a psychoactive ingredient known as Salvinorun A, which induces visual and auditory hallucinations in humans when absorbed into the bloodstream. The consciousness-altering effects are usually described as extremely intense, and typically last anywhere from five to fifteen minutes before rapidly wearing off. For obvious reasons, including its widespread legality in most countries, Salvia has become somewhat popular as a recreational drug. Many states, over the past few years, have taken steps toward making the substance illegal. I have a simple question: Why?

I have never used Salvia, and don't much care to ever try it. Hallucinogenic drugs have never been very appealing to me, because I prefer to maintain a certain level of control over my consciousness and the reliability of my senses. An experience which takes me "out of body," as it were, or severely impairs the normal functions of my brain, is entirely unappealing to me. But who am I - and more importantly, what is the government - to tell others that they shouldn't be allowed to have such experiences if that is their choice? If it causes no harm to others and does not infringe on the rights of anyone else, why should it be illegal?

In Roe v. Wade, the United States Supreme Court made the controversial decision that the right to control what occurs within one's own body - specifically, the development of an embryo or fetus in a woman's womb - is protected by the Constitutional right to privacy as dictated by the Fourteenth Amendment. This decision made the act of aborting a pregnancy a legal and protected right in all 50 states. I'm sure you can see the parallel I wish to draw with this analogy. If controlling the functions of one's own body is a Constitutionally protected right, up to and including the termination of a developing human life, does it not logically follow that the act of introducing a substance to one's body with the intention of temporarily altering one's state of consciousness should also fall under the Constitutional right to privacy?

And then, of course, there is the often-stated hypocrisy of the American War on Drugs. In most states in the U.S., it is perfectly legal for an individual 21 years of age or older to consume alcohol for recreational purposes. Likewise, it is legal for anyone over the age of 18 to use tobacco products for the same reason. In justifying the decision to outlaw certain substances, legislators often make the argument that the substance in question is "dangerous," has a high potential for addiction, and in many cases that the use of such a substance makes an individual dangerous under certain conditions (such as when operating a vehicle) to those around them. Let's look at some facts.

Is It Dangerous to the User?

Alcohol:

  • Heavy, continuous long-term alcohol use has a significant negative impact on the liver, contributing to three separate liver diseases, the complications of which can be life-threatening.
  • Alcohol is considered to be a contributing factor in about 100,000 deaths in the U.S. every year.
  • Alcohol poisoning is relatively common and can result in death. A blood-alcohol level of .55% is fatal in half of those affected.

Tobacco:

  • 445,000 deaths in the U.S. each year are attributed to tobacco use.
  • Tobacco use has been scientifically demonstrated to be a primary cause of respiratory and oral cancers, and can be a contributing factor in pancreatic, liver, bladder, kidney, stomach, colon and rectum cancers, as well as some forms of leukemia.

Is There a High Potential for Addiction?

Alcohol:
At least one symptom of addiction is reported in 14% of alcohol users, and 48% of daily users.

Tobacco:
Do I even need to quote the statistic here? 75% of cigarette smokers and 91% of daily smokers report at least one symptom of addiction. When nicotine enters the bloodstream, nicotine molecules attach to receptors in the brain, triggering the release of dopamine, giving the user a pleasant sensation. As the brain builds a tolerance to nicotine through continued use, more of these receptors are created, and higher levels of nicotine are required to trigger the same levels of dopamine release. When use is discontinued, dopamine levels become unnaturally low, causing the individual to feel unpleasant and experience "cravings". Scientists generally regard the addictive quality of nicotine as equal to or greater than that of cocaine.

Is It Potentially Harmful to Non-Users?

Alcohol:
About 40% of motor-vehicle fatalities in the U.S. are alcohol-related. Many of those killed in alcohol-related car accidents are individuals not under the influence of alcohol.

Tobacco:
Secondhand smoke is often implicated in the development of asthma in adolescents, and smoking while pregnant is known to cause complications such as birth defects and low birth weight.

The Bottom Line

As I've demonstrated, both of the most common recreational drugs in the United States have been scientifically and statistically shown to match all of the criteria for being classified as Schedule I Controlled Substances, and yet they both remain legal in all 50 states, while common illegal drugs such as cannabis, Salvia divinorum, LSD and MDMA have been demonstrated to be less harmful to the individual user, much less addictive, and less likely to pose a threat to non-users. But more importantly, the same Constitutional right to privacy which grants women the ability to legally terminate a pregnancy can be easily logically extended to the right of an individual to possess and consume psychoactive substances for recreational purposes. So, why the hypocrisy? Why are the alcohol and tobacco industries two of the largest and most profitable ventures in the United States while thousands of individuals are sitting in jail cells across the country on simple possession charges? That, my friends, is the $64,000 question.

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  • Public Discussion (33)
Danny McGee

If you believe in the continued prohibition of controlled substances, why? Do you believe alcohol and tobacco should also be made illegal, or do you believe the laws should remain as they are? As always, remember that all comments are subject to the Code of Honor.

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:33 AM EDT
jfrank

It makes no sense to me.

  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:29 AM EDT
demmywemmy

You know why salvia is still legal in most states and countries? Because the high stinks. 30 seconds of unpleasantness followed by a long headache.

I'm convinced our government won't even consider the legality of hemp, besides its many industrial uses, because for many it's so enjoyable.

Rotten old government.

  • 3 votes
Reply#3 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:31 AM EDT
prompt

The high doesn't stink. Sure, some people react poorly to it but that is the same with all drugs - just look at Danny who dislikes hallucinogenics. Personally I don't like the salvia high, but I know many people who love it. One guy is a high-90 average 3rd year physics university student who I never knew did drugs, until he told me recently that salvia is highly enjoyable to him.

  • 1 vote
#3.1 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:39 PM EDT
Brian White

Salvia is one of only 2 drugs I've tried that I hated. It's terrifying and strange, and normally I like terrifying and strange. The government could legalize it, they could advertise it on billboards, and there would be no potential for abuse because of it's nature.

  • 3 votes
#3.2 - Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:17 AM EDT
Baby J

Exactly, the drug isn't ever going to be a problem because of its nature as an INTENSE high that lasts an inordinately short amount of time.

    #3.3 - Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:01 PM EDT
    Brian White

    It does not last an inordinately short amount of time in my opinion. The insane hallucinations last a good 20 minutes and feel like a lifetime. There are short acting intense drugs like DMT and 5-MEO-DMT that are just as intense and even shorter acting, but they actually do have a potential for abuse because they're actually enjoyable.

      #3.4 - Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:12 PM EDT
      prompt

      From my readings DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are still too short which is why I have my eyes set on brewing some Ayahuasca.

      As for salvia, I've always felt like the trip lasts a lifetime but when you come down you are too confused to really get a grasp of the time you've been high.

        #3.5 - Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:21 AM EDT
        Yuriy Bilokonsky

        Let me know how the ayahuasca works out. I had me a caapi plant a while ago and had to move.

          #3.6 - Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:00 PM EDT
          Danny McGee

          Oh God, ayahuasca's what my ex started taking when she decided I wasn't spiritual enough to understand the mysteries of the universe she was unlocking by getting @!$%#ed up, and dumped me. Good luck with that. :P

          • 2 votes
          #3.7 - Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:22 PM EDT
          E.D.Kain

          Danny, I couldn't agree more. Criminalization of drugs is a foolish move--expensive, devastating, and foolish. Salvia is a terrible high. It burns hot as hell and lasts a very short time. It's not a social drug as its effects are so strong as to be debilitating.

          That is hardly the point however.

          Drugs like marijuana do have enjoyable highs but also very few side effects, some medicinal qualities, and potential to be a major tax-revenue source, not to mention the cost savings on non violent offenders choking up our prison system.

          The prohibition on marijuana should end. Other drugs become more complicated. I have witnessed first hand the destruction some of these substances have on people. Perhaps the legalization of marijuana would free up enough resources to actually combat harder drugs. Perhaps not.

          I say, one step at a time.

          • 1 vote
          #3.8 - Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:11 PM EDT
          JackK

          "The prohibition on marijuana should end. "

          No doubt. This should be an easy sell to the American public. But, alas, I am constantly overestimating human intelligence and problem solving ability.

          "Other drugs become more complicated. I have witnessed first hand the destruction some of these substances have on people."

          Agreed. I have also witnessed first hand the destruction of lives by hard drugs. But, I have also never seen a case where I believe that throwing them in prison will help them. I have also never seen a true addict have trouble obtaining their illegal drugs and they are illegal. Just because they become legal will not mean that everybody is going to go nuts doing the stuff. Alchohol is legal and there are many people who do not kill themselves drinking. Granted there will be a learning process...

          "Perhaps the legalization of marijuana would free up enough resources to actually combat harder drugs. "

          Marijuana is certainly taking up alot more of the DEA's resources these days. It certainly would free up a lot of money and resources. But, I would like to suggest that instead of "combat"ing harder drugs with the added money, we should use that money for treatment.

          When you take someone that has a heroin addiction and throw him in prison, 9 times out of 10 he will still have the addiction when he gets out. And, now he has acquired a whole new set of skills for obtaining his drugs which are overpriced BTW because they are sold on the black market.

          "I say, one step at a time. "

          Yeah, that is probably how it is going to play out. People don't really like change and the herd takes a long time to change their minds about things that are complex like this.

            #3.9 - Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:40 PM EDT
            greenguy

            On balance, I don't think the government should be in the business of banning plants. But if we insist on putting them into that business, it seems bizarre that the plant they would want to ban is cannabis. Especially as this plant, unlike tobacco, actually has some positive medicinal uses.

            I haven't tried salvia; I might someday. But I'm not too big a fan of hallucinogens.

              #3.10 - Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:55 PM EDT
              Reply
              Jumpmaster82-436869

              I still don't understand why the number 1 &2 killers are sold on everyother corner and marijuana is so demonized

              • 2 votes
              Reply#4 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:37 AM EDT
              demmywemmy

              Each interest has powerful lobbies.

              • 2 votes
              #4.1 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:32 AM EDT
              Reply
              bondibox

              I agree with half of your argument... that the prohibition of recreational drugs is hypocritical compared to alcohol and tobacco. But the legality of Salvia also makes just as hypocritical the prohibition on recreational drugs.

              I have tried 40x Salvia D, and I've also been to 100 Dead shows, if you know what I mean. That Salvia trip was the single most whacked out I've ever been in my life. I've never been so completely detached from reality ... I was fully on board the crazy train.

              So in terms of public safety, health, etc., there's absolutely no comparison between Salvia D and Marijuana, and the status quo only proves that special interests are what really compels marijuana prohibition.

              I say to anyone who believes Salvia ought to remain legal that they need to try it once. Smoke it until you lose your senses (and have a straight friend nearby to make sure you don't burn the house down when you drop the joint). If after this experience you still think it should be available for sale then fine. This goes double for politicians.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#5 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:33 AM EDT
              demmywemmy

              Bondi-

              Perhaps you should state so it's clear to all that you smoked salvia that was 40 times natural stregnth. (I know you say 40X, but for the uninitiated...)

              What can that be compared to? 190 proof alcohol? 1000 mcg. of LSD? Some crazed botonist's THC-Delta 9 bloated super weed? Did you ever wonder if that was too strong?

              Was there any warning as to its potency on the package? Keep it legal and there should be. I tried 5X and I mention my results above.

              I haven't heard horror stories about salvia either; although like with any mood and mind altering substance, I'm sure there are some. But nothing comes close to demon alcohol (ETOH). I call it the world's cr@ppiest drug- pisses people off yes, but also helps raise awareness (most think it's not a drug, which the spirit companies perpetuate. Our government, too.

              OT: Dead shows. 1st: 7/31/74 Hartford; last: 9/25/91 Boston Garden. About 20 shows in between. How about you?

              Forgot to mention: TIHKAL and PIHKAL by Sasha Shulgin are fascinating texts about the uses of tryptamines and phenethylamines, respectively. Recommended.

              • 2 votes
              #5.1 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:27 AM EDT
              bondibox

              Yes, the 40x is 40 times the strength of natural Salvia. I specifically mentioned that to put it in contrast to your experience. I contend that if you only experienced 30 seconds of unpleasant feeling, then you didn't smoke enough. It should be a good 10 minutes of an extremely unpleasant feeling. I mean, that's the kind of buzz that people smoke it for, to get really high. I don't think you got off. So did I overdose? No, I don't think so ... any less and I'd have had an experience similar to yours. Any more and ... well, I couldn't have smoked any more, I was unconscious. It's not like nitrous or weed, where small amounts give a light feeling of euphoria. It's all or nothing with Salvia.

              I don't think it compares to anything ... suppose I only smoked 1x strength, and smoked 40 times more (not a fun prospect, but whatever). That doesn't minimize the drugs outrageous effects. Sure, there are more potent forms of alcohol, and marijuana too. But alcohol is still alcohol and THC is still THC. The active drug in Salvia is the same whether you smoke a lot of some weak stuff or a little of the fortified stuff.

              • 1 vote
              #5.2 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:49 PM EDT
              Danny McGee

              But the legality of Salvia also makes just as hypocritical the prohibition on recreational drugs.

              States are pushing toward making it illegal, and my state already has. I think the main reason it's still widely legal is because it's a relative unknown. I hadn't even heard of it until like last year.

              I say to anyone who believes Salvia ought to remain legal that they need to try it once. Smoke it until you lose your senses (and have a straight friend nearby to make sure you don't burn the house down when you drop the joint). If after this experience you still think it should be available for sale then fine. This goes double for politicians.

              I've been around people smoking it. That was enough for me. My point, though, is, yeah, it @!$%#s you the @!$%# up. But if you really want to have that experience, in a responsible manner (sober friends around to supervise and all that), why should the government stop you? I think the most ridiculous argument I've heard is, "Driving while on Salvia is dangerous." Well no @!$%# sherlock! When you need someone to hold the pipe for you because you're probably going to drop it as soon as you're done inhaling, that's a sign. I seriously doubt anyone on Salvia would be conscious enough to remember what a car is, let alone have the idea to get in one and try to drive it somewhere. And again, that's why supervision is necessary, so that if you do decide to do stupid @!$%# you have people around that can prevent you from doing it.

              One of my friends is a classically trained artist, and he makes some decent money selling his paintings and doing commissioned sculptures for people, but he couldn't draw straight lines on paper when he was on the stuff. He had his sketchpad with him, and he showed us the results after he came down. It was pretty hilarious.

              • 2 votes
              #5.3 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:51 PM EDT
              bondibox

              That's cool. And I agree that people should have the option to get that high if they so desire. The thing about Salvia D is it seems insane to try and make illegal a garden variety flower found in too many grandmothers' backyards.

              (In my best Craig Ferguson impression) Sound familiar?

              I don't think you can discuss the one (salvia) without talking about the other (marijuana). It only underscores how b.s. arguments of public safety are really just excuses and not actual reasons.

                #5.4 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:15 PM EDT
                prompt

                Forgot to mention: TIHKAL and PIHKAL by Sasha Shulgin are fascinating texts about the uses of tryptamines and phenethylamines, respectively. Recommended.

                Great books and a lot of great drugs ;D

                • 2 votes
                #5.5 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:42 PM EDT
                Reply
                demmywemmy

                MSNBC under their money section had a similarly titled article which I seeded. Thrust: the negatives outweigh the positives. Wow, surprise.

                http://dwemmy.newsvine.com/_news/2008/09/11/1852608-what-if-we-legalized-all-drugs-msn-money

                shameless plug, thanks in advance.

                • 2 votes
                Reply#6 - Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:08 PM EDT
                Yuriy Bilokonsky

                The Roe vs. Wade angle is new, I think. I agree with you. It's all rather silly.

                • 2 votes
                Reply#7 - Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:24 AM EDT
                Brian White

                My question to people who think we should end the war on drugs - what do you think about prescriptions? Should you be able to buy any prescription drug?

                • 1 vote
                Reply#8 - Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:20 AM EDT
                JackK

                Brian,
                In my opinion no. Because other countries cannot produce prescription drugs as easily as they can produce marijuana, coke, meth, and heroin.

                Organized crime would not be interested in trying to sell something that 1. Is hard to find a good quality supplier, 2. You can go to a doctor and get the drugs and 3. Most of the prescription drugs that people are after are the opiates. They would not be seeking these drugs if heroin(opium) was legal.

                OTOH, organized crime is very interested in selling pot, coke, meth and heroin because they can control the manufacture outside of the US, the demand for these drugs is high in the US, and because of the illegality, the profit margins are huge. Lots of money leaves the US to go to other countries who provide these services.

                If the US legalizes these drugs, we can manufacture, tax, sell, and purchase these items right here. No billions spent every year for DEA. No police presence needed for gangstas selling crack in the ghetto. No over half of the prison population that is in for non violent drug crimes. No mayor's house getting the door kicked in and shooting 2 of his dogs by the DEA. No innocent victims of the drug war.

                Will there be more addicts in the US initially? Yes. But, look at the pragraph above and see how much money we will have to treat them now. Just like alchohol, tobacco, illegal drugs and prescription drugs, some people will learn to beat their addiction and some won't.

                  #8.1 - Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:40 PM EDT
                  Brian White

                  I don't follow. Why is that you should be able to buy heroin legally at the store, but need a prescription for Vicodin?

                    #8.2 - Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:58 PM EDT
                    JackK

                    No need for Vicodin if you can buy opium products at the store.

                    But, drugs that you need for heat problems, blood thinners, etc. need to be prescribed by a doctor after he diagnoses your problem.

                      #8.3 - Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:15 PM EDT
                      Brian White

                      No need for Vicodin if you can buy opium products at the store.

                      Maybe you prefer it. Why shouldn't you have it?

                      But, drugs that you need for heat problems, blood thinners, etc. need to be prescribed by a doctor after he diagnoses your problem.

                      Why? Why can't he just tell you what you should buy, and you go into the store and buy it? Why is the prescription needed?

                        #8.4 - Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:11 PM EDT
                        JackK

                        "Maybe you prefer it. Why shouldn't you have it? "

                        You can have it. It is the same thing. Vicodin = opiate = opium = heroin. Different strengths, vicodin = hydrocodone(basically synthetic opium) + acetamenophen

                        "Why? Why can't he just tell you what you should buy, and you go into the store and buy it? Why is the prescription needed? "

                        Well, There are drugs that are much more dangerous to public health than the recreational drugs:

                        1. Things like antibiotics shouldn't be used excessively because viruses adapt and form new strains that can beat the existing drugs.

                        2. There are a lot of dumb people running around. You don't want someone taking the wrong thing or wrong dose because they wrote it down wrong.

                        3. You don't want Moe telling his friend Larry that he had a pain in his chest and saw the doctor where he was diagnosed and given prescription X. Then Larry has a pain in his chest and goes and gets prescription X.

                        You like the scripts Brian? Which ones do you want legalized w/o scripts?

                          #8.5 - Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:46 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          Baby J

                          I'll begin by plainly stating my opinion: Salvia should not be illegal, And marijuana, well that's a conversation that the enlightened have had for a long time in this country. It should also be legal for personal use.

                          I myself have smoked the 20x, the 40x, and the 80x (how I was initiated in fact - oh god, I wanted to die at first, especially since it was done as a prank and had NO idea I wasn't smoking weed), but I still think it should be legal. For the simple reasons stated above: if it's not hurting anyone else, and you want to take this piece of flora and inhale its fumes, I say the government shouldn't have the ability to say you can't.

                          Might I also add: I do not choose to ever smoke Salvia again.

                          As for the blatant hypocrisy of alcohol's legality, well.. that should be addressed. The current legalization of alcohol, and the prohibiton of marijuana and Salvia, should be reversed (if nothing else).

                          • 1 vote
                          Reply#9 - Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:13 PM EDT
                          Brian White

                          Making alcohol illegal was already tried. Why make the same mistake again?

                          • 1 vote
                          #9.1 - Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:13 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          David C. Kanz

                          The government's "War on Drugs" is nothing more than a control mechanism---the elimination of competition...think about it.

                          This discussion may also shed light on the opium trade globally----and the role Afghanistan plays in the production of opium and who REALLY controls the opium trade...

                          Why did the United States create the Mujahadin anyway? To battle the Russians in Afghanistan? Maybe---that's was part of the deal...

                          • 1 vote
                          Reply#10 - Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:17 PM EDT
                          indica

                          In Roe v. Wade, the United States Supreme Court made the controversial decision that the right to control what occurs within one's own body - specifically, the development of an embryo or fetus in a woman's womb - is protected by the Constitutional right to privacy as dictated by the Fourteenth Amendment. This decision made the act of aborting a pregnancy a legal and protected right in all 50 states. I'm sure you can see the parallel I wish to draw with this analogy. If controlling the functions of one's own body is a Constitutionally protected right, up to and including the termination of a developing human life, does it not logically follow that the act of introducing a substance to one's body with the intention of temporarily altering one's state of consciousness should also fall under the Constitutional right to privacy?

                          I've never considered that. What a great argument. :3
                          To me the war on drug targets those at the bottom, the common users. I feel that the war on drugs would be a lot more effective if addicts who are caught are required to get treatment, not pay fines, go to asinine drug classes, or go to jail. After all, isn't the war on drugs supposed to keep people off drugs? Why, then, is it making criminals out of the 'victims' that they're trying to protect?

                          • 1 vote
                          Reply#11 - Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:44 AM EDT
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